BLACK SABBATH Touring Drummer TOMMY CLUFETOS On His Absence From '13' Album: 'It's All Water Under The Bridge'

In a new interview with Remzi "Jam Man" Yates of Rocking With Jam Man, BLACK SABBATH's touring drummer Tommy Clufetos was asked why he did not record the drum tracks on the band's final album, 2013's "13", on which the drums were played by Brad Wilk of RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE. He responded (as transcribed by BLABBERMOUTH.NET): "Well, bottom line, I didn't get chose to play on the record, and I think even Ozzy [Osbourne, SABBATH singer] cleared it up that [he] and] the [other] guys [in SABBATH] wanted me to play on the record. Whether that's true or not, this is what he said. ['13' album producer] Rick Rubin chose his drummer, which was Brad Wilk, and they made a really great record that went to Number One, so it's hard to argue with the outcome. It's all water under the bridge. You gotta be thick-skinned when things work out or don't work out."

He continued: "I try to handle those moments with the most class that I can. You can't win them all, and sometimes it doesn't matter what you do or how good you think you're doing, things might not work out for you in that situation. And I really felt that I went and did what I could do. I got the tour, and I think when people watch some clips, I don't think they can argue with the end result. Some will, and that's fine, but I know the people there had a blast. And I even think — it's been years, years, years now that now I see a little shift that, 'Wow, Tommy did a great job.' Sometimes it takes time for people to come around to what you're doing, and I'm cool with that, too. But you win some, you lose some. They made a great record. They chose who they chose, and that was their product. That's part of being a sideman. It's not my choice. It's their choice, and there was a lot of moving parts to that scenario, what was going on, when you get to that level, and I wasn't the choice at that time. Oh, well. You gotta move on and keep pushing."

Asked if it was ever explained to him why that decision was made, Tommy said: "I believe it was strictly a Rick Rubin decision, to be honest with you. And to his defense, I know that he had worked with RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE, so he thought that he could get what he wanted out of him, and he was probably comfortable because he had worked with him before. I don't know. That's more of a Rick Rubin question. But Rick Rubin, what a great producer, and he has a great track record. And some of the things that I hear him say about music, I guess I can't argue with it. Maybe it's unorthodox, and some people — he's gotten to deal with a lot of flack, yet he's had a lot of success. So I don't wanna be somebody judging because it didn't go my way. Everybody has their own vision for something, and if I don't fit into that vision, there's really... You can't take it totally personal."

Clufetos went on to say that playing in SABBATH and Ozzy's solo band was a good example of what being a hired gun really means.

"Being a sideman musician versus being a member of a band makes you tougher," Tommy explained. "Because you learn that the show must go on, and the show will always go on. I set aside my personal feelings when it's time to go up there. I notice a lot of band guys that have come through the band, they don't have that inner thing that I've had to struggle to get where I've got. Because sometimes when you're in a band, you're considered great because you're in that band. But playing with other people is not as easy as it seems, as you may be great in your band, because you've come up with those guys for 20 years. That's one thing. But going to a different situation and fitting in that situation, and then going to a different situation and playing that style, that's a whole another thing that sometimes being a sideman, there's a benefit musically to that too, because you learn to adapt, you learn to read people, versus just reading the three people that you've come up playing with, or that one style, where you're only playing what you wanna play. A lot of the times I have to play another guy's style, but then make that my own, and somehow, how do I shimmy that to work, versus just playing… Like in my own band here, I can play whatever I want. I dictate where the flow goes. So it is what it is. I'm not complaining. I like being a sideman because also when you go home, when the job's done, it's just done. I get to go home. I don't have all the stresses of, 'Man, we gotta pay for the tour buses. We gotta pay for the trucks. The crew needs the checks, and this guy quit, and that guy quit.' I'm dealing with a little of that with my own band on the lowest level. But there's pluses and minuses to everything."

Back in 2013, Ozzy told Billboard that the way Clufetos's exclusion from the "13" album was dealt with "wasn't very fair on Tommy. Rick Rubin just didn't want to work with him for reasons I don't know," Osbourne said. "He's a great drummer, and he's been with me for awhile now and I just felt that nobody discussed the decision about Brad to me, and it's not fair to Tommy. Tommy was promised the album... It's not because he was my drummer and my ego wanted him. It was just the fact the way it was dealt with. It just got me a bit, it got me pissed off about it. It's all right now. He's a great drummer. I don't know what the problem was."

As for Wilk, Osbourne said he "did a good job. I don't have anything bad to say. He's a very nice guy."

In an e-mail to Billboard, Rubin explained that "Brad is a muscular drummer with great feel and understands the groovy nature of their music — RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE is a groovy rock band, not a metal band — so it was worth a try. When they played together the first time, it was obvious he would do a great job in the seat [original SABBATH drummer] Bill [Ward] left vacated. Bill's a great drummer and I'm sure it would have been an amazing album with him. We all wanted him to participate."

Asked what happened with Bill Ward, who was announced as part of the band's reunion in late 2011 but bowed out a few months later, Ozzy told Spin, "To be absolutely truthful with you, I can't really remember. It was such a long time ago. There was the business side of it and the money side of it. We just didn't have the time to keep the people waiting another fucking ten years . . . We would have loved Bill Ward to step up to the plate, but it never worked out."

Ward claimed that he sat out the reunion because of unfair contractual terms, although the members of SABBATH have hinted in other interviews that he wasn't physically up to the task.

"13" was the first album in 35 years to feature Osbourne, guitarist Tony Iommi and bassist Geezer Butler all playing together.

In February 2017, SABBATH finished "The End" tour in Birmingham, closing out the quartet's groundbreaking 49-year career.

"The End" was SABBATH's last tour because Iommi, who was diagnosed with cancer in 2012 and is currently in remission, can no longer travel for extended amounts of time.

Nearly a year ago, Ozzy reunited with the rest of the original BLACK SABBATH lineup — Iommi, Butler and Ward — for what was his final performance at the "Back To The Beginning" charity concert in their original hometown of Birmingham, United Kingdom.

At "Back To The Beginning", Ozzy played a five-song set with his solo band — consisting of guitarist Zakk Wylde, bassist Mike Inez, keyboardist Adam Wakeman and drummer Tommy Clufetos — before being joined by Iommi, Butler and Ward for four classic SABBATH songs: "War Pigs", "Iron Man", "N.I.B." and "Paranoid".

Ozzy's solo set consisted of four songs from Osbourne's 1980 solo debut album "Blizzard Of Ozz" — "I Don't Know", "Mr. Crowley", "Suicide Solution" and "Crazy Train" — along with his 1991 "No More Tears" ballad "Mama, I'm Coming Home".

The 76-year-old heavy metal singer sang while seated on a black throne and appeared overcome with emotion at times. "You have no idea how I feel. Thank you from the bottom of my heart," he told the crowd.